In an exclusive interview with Manchester Climate Monthly, Sir Merrick Cockell [@Sir_MRC] expressed his desire to see real debate about the future scope of local government happening not only in Council chambers but also further afield. He also pointed to Manchester as an indicator of how things might look if the Local Government Association‘s “Rewired Public Services” campaign achieves its objectives.

Sir Merrick, who was re-elected for a third and final term as chair of the Local Government Association at its AGM yesterday, said “I think out there in the country… there is a feeling that we need to bring decision-taking and power much closer to people and away from the remoteness of Westminster and Whitehall. But somebody has to start generating that debate and seeing whether there is an appetite out there. If there is an appetite, then the political parties will respond because they’re out to get votes.”

Asked about how residents and rate-payers might experience changes from increasing devolution of powers, he stated “Clearly Manchester is ahead of the game in many respects already, through the Greater Manchester grouping of councils. So perhaps it may be slightly less visible [in Manchester] because so much of it is already happening here.”

[Interview conducted by Marc Hudson, editor of Manchester Climate Monthly. Full transcript below the rather slick video about “Rewired Public Services”.]

In your speech to the general assembly yesterday you used the words shield and sword, which older people may recall Neil Kinnock used, and I’m wondering if that was a conscious echo?
Of Neil Kinnock? No, I don’t think I recall that he’d used them. I remember other people using them, not Neil Kinnock.

“Better a dented shield than no shield at all.” I’d like you to imagine that it’s this time next year and the [Rewired Public Services] campaign has achieved many of its objectives. How does that show itself to local tenants, and residents and rate-payers?

Well, it’s not going to happen this time next year. I can guarantee that because actually the ask wasn’t made of this government. They’ve got enough going on. We know that they’ve got only a limited amount of legislation they can put through, so it’s beyond that. It’s the writing of [party] manifestoes and whoever forms the next government – that’s the opportunity. In a year’s time I think things will be pretty much as they are at the moment. I think maybe 2016, 2017, hopefully if whoever forms the next government goes with it or a good part of it, people will then be beginning to see a real and obvious shift from decisions being taken in the centre down to areas. Clearly Manchester is ahead of the game in many respects already, through the Greater Manchester grouping of councils. So perhaps it may be slightly less visible [in Manchester] because so much of it is already happening here.

By that time, if we had a minister or Secretary of State for England that we talked about [in the LGA General Assembly, Mon 1st July] who had a seat at the negotiating table with the equivalence of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland making the case for England to the United Kingdom government with the appropriate sort of powers, then I hope we’ll see a fair equity. Hopefully Scotland will still be in the United Kingdom. But in those negotiations we’ll see equity between the various parts of the United Kingdom. Hopefully some of the powers they’re becoming used to in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, we’ll also have an opportunity to have in different ways in different parts of England.

Final question – how can people who are passionate about local democracy but are not council members help the Local Government Association in achieving this longer term objective of devolving power to English [local] governments?
Well I think it’s about generating some debate. This isn’t something that people talk about … in a pub or a club or wherever. It’s not a matter of day-to-day debate, and I think it would be good to make it a matter of more general discussion. Councils can do that, they can actually have set piece debates in their Council chambers, maybe on the Rewiring Public Services document as something to start talking about . It would be good to hear, because I think out there in the country – it may not be recognised yet – but I think there is a feeling that we need to bring decision-taking and power much closer to people and away from the remoteness of Westminster and Whitehall. But somebody has to start generating that debate and seeing whether there is an appetite out there. If there is an appetite, then the political parties will respond because they’re out to get votes and they recognise populist issues. So we have to make it a bit more populist.

Thank you very much. We’ll try to make that happen in Manchester.